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11 January 2008 @ 02:06 am
 
How can you be an adult fan of the books and not know The Chronicles of Narnia is heavily based on the Bible?

Seriously?

I guess it's another one of those stories I'm close to. They were the first books that ever hit me emotionally because the wake-up call at the end was shocking and powerful. But... in re-reading them several times over the years, it's hard not to see them for what they are. But at the same time, I don't see it as a negative thing as some people do. I don't watch the new The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe film and think, "Aslan = Jesus" because influences and being based on something do not mean it's basically two and a half hours of preaching. Did people walk away from the book and start worshipping Aslan? For that matter, did people walk away from The Matrix and start worshipping Neo?

... Well, some weirdos might have, but that's not the point. They weren't asked to.

So I also don't see why having that pointed out to you suddenly taints them forever. I suppose religion doesn't interest most people, and symbolism of it (however subtle) doesn't, either. But hey... why is it not okay for them to put it in The Chronicles of Narnia, and it is okay for various Goth bands, and U2, and any other number of things the same person enjoys to use the same kind of symbolism? Not all of them shine negative light on it. And if you think about it, a person/creature/deity sacrificing themselves for mankind is a pretty broad subject.

It's a little confusing, isn't it? If religion is so uncool, even when it's just an undercurrent, and grounds to abandon something you enjoy... what about the other stuff? Is it turning a blind eye to it, or... maybe it's, "hey, faith in something being shown in a positive light? gotta avoid that or I might catch it!"?

I don't think faith is a bad thing necessarily. To each their own. I just don't like having people try to prove that theirs is correct and to force their values on me, or express views that really shouldn't have anything to do with religion. It's up to your God to judge, not your peers, and that's how it should be. But hey, I'm agnostic with an interest in the stories that come with deities, like mythology. I'm not really into the side of things that brings the religion into your life on a daily basis, and is laced through everything you do.

... Yeah, I broke one of my rules. Avoiding religion and politics with friends is really the best thing to do. People feel too strongly about it, so do I, and I'm too much of a power-Aquarian to stand by and hear someone be so silly and hypocritical about it without saying something. I NEED TO WORK ON HAVING A LESS INTENSE SENSE OF JUSTICE AND EQUALITY AND UNDERSTANDING. And while I'm at it, I should work on not reading into things so deeply and placing hidden meanings where there are none, though it's fun on a creative, fictional level. And I'm sure CERTAIN PEOPLE are enjoying the plot bunnies that come with that.

But on a less serious note, I really liked the film despite the overuse of CGI. I thought it was done well, and kept the fearsome and magical aspects of the book intact. And the cast was great. The kids did a fantastic job, and c'mon... Tilda Swinton. I feel so alone in having enjoyed it as much as I did. But considering the fact that I wore out the budget BBC production tapes as a child, it's not very surprising that I love being able to see a larger scale production.

I think my brain is hungry again.
 
 
Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
Music: Get On : Dirtmitts
 
 
 
hazeltea: screaming Rimmerhazeltea on January 11th, 2008 02:46 pm (UTC)
When I was a kid, the Chronicles of Narnia were my favorite books, and I didn't catch on that they were religious until I was much older, even though I was raised Catholic. I don't consider myself Christian, really, more agnostic if anything, but that isn't really quite right, either. Instead of believing all religions are wrong, I like to believe that they are all a little bit right, and that politics and human nature have sullied the intentions over time. Do I have a problem with psychotic right wing Christian evangalists? You bet your ass I do. Do I have a problem with Jesus? No way. Nor do I have a problem with Moses, the Buddha, or anyone else who ever laid down some non violent common sense. So, I really don't see what the problem is in accepting that Narnia was an allegory. Some people are jsut stubborn and pissed that the world wasn't PC back in the day and carefully edited to not specify references to any one religion.
TASHmanian devil: nao // earrobotalarm on January 11th, 2008 03:08 pm (UTC)
I think in some cases, that's very true. Too much PC ambiguity takes the fun out of things, but in this particular case, I think it's more of an anti-culture rearing its ugly head. It's very "in" to be anti-religion, but when you're doing it purely to be cool and not because you have genuine reasons for rejecting it, it's easy to get caught up in other things that glorify it without realising you're doing it.

Like, I don't think a lot of Goth culture/bands could be considered anti-religion because they're so embedded in religious symbolism and structure. If you were really, really bothered by religion to the point that you'd object to reading stories you loved just because it's "too close" to the Bible, I can't quite wrap my head around why you would not... you know, reject all symbolism. And that goes for a lot of people who do the same thing, who hail things that are very obviously religious and yet reject it so passionately at the same time.

Geez, trends get me so confused.
hazeltea: screaming Rimmerhazeltea on January 11th, 2008 03:14 pm (UTC)
I think most goth bands and people who are uncomfortable by Christian symboloism are rebelling within the systym, as it were. It's ok for them to like things that are "blasphemous", for example, because it's rebelling against the image of goody two shoes church ladies and conservatives. At least that's what people see on the surface and that is the trend that is popularized. Even some people who get involved in neo-paganism never break loose of the Christian symbolism and mode of thought and work within and against those mores. It's rebellion, pure and simple.
TASHmanian devil: sakura // pitch blackrobotalarm on January 11th, 2008 03:27 pm (UTC)
Oh, of course. But I'm not trying to tackle them, not by any means. Many goth bands also dabble in symbolism that isn't intended to be rebellious or going against the grain. Heck, many bands in general, outside of that. U2 are one of the biggest bands in the world, they use a lot of positive symbolism, and I know people who fit this type who love them. I just can't believe that they aren't conscious of the hypocrisy in it. Even HYDE could hardly be considered the type of musician someone who blatantly rejected religion and all theory of it should be listening to. He's not religious, but his lyrics don't condemn as much as they question and give light to the potential for there being truth in it.

I understand rebellion for the sake of rebellion, and power to them, but consistency is rather important.
hazeltea: screaming Rimmerhazeltea on January 11th, 2008 03:41 pm (UTC)
I think a lot of people just take things at face value. The people who don't see the Christian paralells in Narnia without them being pointed out are unlikely to see them in U2 XD

Also, Narnia is a story, while songs just mention symbols. I guess to these people it might smack more of a sermon. I don't know, it doesn't make much sense to me either.

(Also, maybe I'm getting old, but I'm at the point in my life where rebellion for the sake of rebellion seems a little silly and laughable. I guess it's a stage everyone has to go through, though...)
TASHmanian devil: den // rollin'robotalarm on January 11th, 2008 03:49 pm (UTC)
Sadly true. And I'm one of those people who loves to dig beneath the surface and figure out all the little details and where things came from. XDXD I believe they call us "nerds"!

Man. I guess, on the bright side, at least she read it before she condemned it. Though you're right; if she didn't pick up on it before she was told... I do not know how that's possible when you are raised Christian. I was hardly the best Catholic on the planet and I caught it when I was 15.

It just seems like rebellion (and individuality) is the new conformity to me, that's all. But if people want to do it... yeah, there's not much you can do to get it through to them.
Amesgereizt on January 11th, 2008 03:42 pm (UTC)
lolol worthless com.
I just enjoy V.C. Andrews and her incestuous undertones. :/
hazelteahazeltea on January 11th, 2008 03:44 pm (UTC)
Re: lolol worthless com.
I rather liked the poison donuts, too.
Ames: MIA LOLgereizt on January 11th, 2008 03:50 pm (UTC)
Re: lolol worthless com.
And the stuffing of kids in attics! Or killing of stepfathers. GOOD TIIMES.
TASHmanian devil: den // open your xxxx!robotalarm on January 11th, 2008 03:51 pm (UTC)
BUT I LOVE YOU ANYWAY.
You know, I've never read any of her books.

RECOMMENDATION?
Amesgereizt on January 11th, 2008 03:52 pm (UTC)
Re: BUT I LOVE YOU ANYWAY.
ALL OF THE FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC BOOKS.

ALL OF THEM ARE GOOD.

I loves you too.
TASHmanian devil: den & ryo // model facesrobotalarm on January 11th, 2008 04:00 pm (UTC)
OKAY I WILL HUNT THEM DOWN FOR YOU.

... AND HEY WAIT DIDN'T YOU SAY BEFORE INCEST WAS WEIRD.
BUT WE WROTE INCEST, YO.
AND IT WAS HOT. REALLY REALLY HOT. AND I SHOULD GET THE REST OF THAT MANGA.
TASHmanian devil: den & ryo // srsly?robotalarm on January 11th, 2008 07:50 pm (UTC)
... WOW.
THAT IS MESSED UP.
Amarokster blog!: FROWWWNN WHATplacetohide on January 11th, 2008 07:22 pm (UTC)
You think that people think Christianity is uncool and don't like the movie because of that?

Try comparing that movie to what religious people were saying about The Golden Compass movie. Christianity has a HUGE bias in our society, and to be honest I'm really surprised that anyone would think people are against a heavily Christian film/series of books when the opposite is true.

I've never seen anyone say anything bad about the Narnia movie, but there's been a veritable shitstorm over the His Dark Materials movie, and that's with all the religion chopped right out.
TASHmanian devil: leknaat // castrobotalarm on January 11th, 2008 07:54 pm (UTC)
I don't think "people" do, I think my specific friend does. I don't claim to be generalising at all about that. Though I am generalising about a similar type of person in later discussion of the anti-religious-for-cool syndrome.

I haven't seen The Golden Compass or His Dark Materials yet (I'm slow, aha). Does it flow in the same vein of religious-based fantasy, or the opposite?

Oh, and incidentally, I wouldn't call America "my society"... the person in question isn't actually American and neither am I, so I don't think it really factors into how I view things. Because where I come from, the Christian movement isn't usually taken into consideration, really? At least, not to the same level it is here. Just saying. ^^

Edited at 2008-01-11 08:05 pm (UTC)
hazelteahazeltea on January 11th, 2008 08:18 pm (UTC)
In my case, I was talking about scenesters of a certain age, not the American public as a whole, only because I've met a lot of people in this category who hold these opinions.
Fidget: and left them in the lurchda_fidge on January 11th, 2008 07:35 pm (UTC)
I was going to say, "GOD BLESS YOU" but then I figured the irony was simply TOO MUCH.

I'll be brief here to avoid being boring, but I totally loved the books and the old BBC versions that we taped off of PBS (hurrah for Tom Baker!), and it wasn't until The Golden Compass came out in trailers that I discovered the Narnia books are considered overtly christian. I watched the new movie a second time and was like, Oh, okay, so it holds some intense similarities to a lot of christian beliefs. Whatever. Still a sweet movie.

A lot of people thinks that must automatically make it PROPAGANDA, but I thought it was just influenced because it was written by someone of faith who wanted to send a nice message to the kids reading his book. If you hold a certain belief, it comes out in your creative works.

So um, I agree with you? :D
TASHmanian devil: kaori & atsushi // lions playing operatirobotalarm on January 11th, 2008 08:03 pm (UTC)
THANK YOU JESUS.

Auuugh, The Silver Chair was the best one. I really wish they had finished the entire series instead of just tackling a few, but how could you do The Last Battle with such a slim budget? The animation they used could have worked, but... blehhh!

Exactly. The keyword is "whatever." It shouldn't factor in. I don't think you can even really claim it's religious if it's based-on, rather than being overtly, "JESUS, GOD, HOLY SPIRIT, ETC" so it seems rather silly. Most kids aren't even going to take it as anything to do with "that place" they have to go to on a Sunday morning to sleep through some guy talking and singing occasionally.
rinoa.aetheristic on January 12th, 2008 12:38 am (UTC)
Don't feel alone. I've told you before that I thought it was amazing. ^^
fenery: akira_pifenery on January 12th, 2008 02:30 am (UTC)
How can you be an adult fan of the books and not know The Chronicles of Narnia is heavily based on the Bible?

lol~ I have no idea. It's so obvious it's see through. Even the movie.